Credibility, References, and trying to establish yourself as a Photographer

[Kustomkarma]

   Hi All,

   This was a post over on the How's TF working out for you thread, but rather than steering that discussion off course, I have moved it over here. The original post is below. I welcome any input as I'm dying to know...

 

   Lots of good responses in these posts, but it leaves me a little intimidated. I enjoy shooting models and enjoy contributuing to the scene more from an Art angle as I have studied drawing, painting, etc. my entire life. I don't expect to ever make any money from this, but it would be nice to be invloved. I have a day job, so I'll never be able to get as much experience as someone that shoots for a living. There's also the issue of finding people that are willing to work with you. Since I'm just getting back into this seriously, I figured I'd try to work with models that are starting out so we could progress at a similar pace as we're both going to make mistakes but hopefully improve over time.

This all leads me to pose a couple of questions to the PL Community.

What is a good way to gain credibility?

Should I somehow be collecting references?

I would love to study with a professional, but my time is limited by my career - should I be thinking about some kind of apprenticeship?

I'm very dedicated to pursuing this, but have been more or less learning this on my own as best I can. Any input in regard to the above would be awesome and appreciated. :)

[Jeff campbell]

Here is the most important thing to do;

On your web site list your address, phone number, cell phone number, email address

When someone calls PICK UP THE PHONE

People have great web sites made but then make it impossible for people to get in touch

One last thing, if you want to make money return all calls and answer all emails.

                                                   Pappa Jeff / www.partywiththejerseydevil.com

[Kustomkarma]

Thanks for PL featuring my discussion and thanks for your reply. I am super easy to get ahold of and will work my schedule around anyone that's interested. I'm actually in the process of having business cards printed right now and am slowly building up my portfolio.

[wallacephotobiz]

If you would like professional advice about running a photography business check out my website http://www.photographymarketingsecrets.com

[Art & Soul Photography]

I'd say one of the easiest things you could do is go to model mayhem and see if you can get a couple of people to come work with you. Encourage them to bring friends as you want them to be comfortable and know that things are legit, and use these shoots to do the kind of things you want in your portfolio. You can even pay these models for their time, (even if it's maybe for a meal and images) and ask them to fill out surveys about their experience. But these testimonials can help you establish credit and referrals for future clients.

Another thing you can do is plan a group shoot. I belong to a couple of local photography groups and we love going out with models together. I always learn lots and the models who participate get lots of varied work from different photographers for their portfolio. Look on meet up.com or SmugMug for a local group near you and get to know some other photographers in your area. I've built up quite a close network around here and I've now got a great referral and backup network built for myself and my clients.who knows, maybe you'd meet a photographer who you connect with who needs help, etc.

Last, but not least, look for workshops in your area. Some are free or very very cheap and many can increase your skill and network very quickly. Like this nation wide tour would have been great for many people on here: http://sandypucblog.com/2011/09/15/pin-up-alooza/ But their next tour is about digital workflow. Great stuff out there.

 

Hope that helps!

[Edson Carlos]

I must start off by stating how much I love your discussions Kustomkarma! Allow me to put on my "photographer" hat for a moment:

 

What is a good way to gain credibility?

You'll struggle here between a good way and a fast way. The fast way is one a road many choose to take, I view that as shooting for free and schmooozing and brown nosing some bigger names until they bite. This typically leads to quick credibility in the eyes of your general photography fan and potential new clients. The good way is the GET GOOD. Let the quality bring you the bigger names, make your work so great that people will want what you produce and are willing to pay you for your time. Time is money whether you love it or it's just work. 

 

Should I somehow be collecting references?

Please elaborate...references on good models to work with?

 

I would love to study with a professional, but my time is limited by my career - should I be thinking about some kind of apprenticeship?

I never really thought about this angle. I have however been behind the scenes with many photographers in our industry and can tell you now that no 2 people (regardless of how competitive they think they are to each other) do it the same way. I can't say that I could ever confuse a Jason Holmes piece with a Holly West or Shannon Brooke. Seek out work that you love and study the final product, begin to think about how they created it and play with recreating the work privately with talent willing to be patient with you. Show a few people you trust for feedback. 

 

When you get decent that's when I'd strike and see if a photographer you connect with will allow you to be an extra set of hands and student for a day on the set.

 

Career first, play time second!

 

e

 

[Bodacious Betty {★}]

I see that you are in Winter Park, FL.  We have a Pin Up/Burlesque Fest going on March 2012.  Come say hi to me and I'll introduce you to the Pin Up America family.  Also, I'm offering a pin up photography workshop as well.  It's only $20 and you'll have the chance to shoot with real pin up models who have lots of experience.  I think that's a win/win all round!

http://www.americanpinupburlesquefest.com/

[Kustomkarma]

Thanks for the suggestions! I actually do have a Model Mayhem account and will be doing a shoot this weekend with an experienced muah gal - and I'm shooting two models, one of which is the muah person and the other has helped me with lighting, equipment, etc. before - so hopefully I've got all my bases covered. I have a casting call posted over on MM, but it's been really difficult getting models to show up or respond to my messages. I'm just offering TF right now, but I'm thinking I'll have to come up with some money for paid shoots the next time I post a casting call. In regard to testimonials, maybe I could get models to write a short little piece for me that I could somehow associate with my online profiles. I never thought about meetup.com, but that's a great idea too.

Art & Soul Photography said:

I'd say one of the easiest things you could do is go to model mayhem and see if you can get a couple of people to come work with you. Encourage them to bring friends as you want them to be comfortable and know that things are legit, and use these shoots to do the kind of things you want in your portfolio. You can even pay these models for their time, (even if it's maybe for a meal and images) and ask them to fill out surveys about their experience. But these testimonials can help you establish credit and referrals for future clients.

Another thing you can do is plan a group shoot. I belong to a couple of local photography groups and we love going out with models together. I always learn lots and the models who participate get lots of varied work from different photographers for their portfolio. Look on meet up.com or SmugMug for a local group near you and get to know some other photographers in your area. I've built up quite a close network around here and I've now got a great referral and backup network built for myself and my clients.who knows, maybe you'd meet a photographer who you connect with who needs help, etc.

Last, but not least, look for workshops in your area. Some are free or very very cheap and many can increase your skill and network very quickly. Like this nation wide tour would have been great for many people on here: http://sandypucblog.com/2011/09/15/pin-up-alooza/ But their next tour is about digital workflow. Great stuff out there.

 

Hope that helps!

[Kustomkarma]

   Thanks Edson! First thanks for having a hand in getting this featured and secondly for the compliment about my writing! I really try to submit intelligent posts that others could gain some knowledge from - as this is ultimately all about "US" the pinup community - I'm just a vehicle of sorts to help move things along. I agree with the getting good vs. schmoozing tactic for success. I do know a a few industry people, but I'm not a name dropper and I don't expect a ride on anyone's coat tails, but I really enjoy learning about and connecting with industry people as there are so many different styles and personalities to learn from. My style is kind of unique to me in that I attempt to portray women in alluring, but strong roles - and generally like to keep them covered up. I'm currently attempting to couple this with my affinity for shooting outside (I am in Florida after all.) I'm really interested in making good semi-biographical Art that tells the viewer a little about the model's personality. But, I'm rambling a bit here.

   As far as references go, I was thinking in terms of written testimonials perhaps or being able to say that I worked with so and so to let other potential models know that everything is on the up and up. 

I would love to trail or be on set with a professional, just to see how things are done. I'd gladly move equipment, set lights, etc. just to learn some new things. I've noticed that there are lots of studios and photographers booking for VLV15 - I'll be there Wednesday - Sunday so maybe I'll be able to work with one of them if I'm lucky. 

Edson Carlos {PL Team} said:

I must start off by stating how much I love your discussions Kustomkarma! Allow me to put on my "photographer" hat for a moment:

 

What is a good way to gain credibility?

You'll struggle here between a good way and a fast way. The fast way is one a road many choose to take, I view that as shooting for free and schmooozing and brown nosing some bigger names until they bite. This typically leads to quick credibility in the eyes of your general photography fan and potential new clients. The good way is the GET GOOD. Let the quality bring you the bigger names, make your work so great that people will want what you produce and are willing to pay you for your time. Time is money whether you love it or it's just work. 

 

Should I somehow be collecting references?

Please elaborate...references on good models to work with?

 

I would love to study with a professional, but my time is limited by my career - should I be thinking about some kind of apprenticeship?

I never really thought about this angle. I have however been behind the scenes with many photographers in our industry and can tell you now that no 2 people (regardless of how competitive they think they are to each other) do it the same way. I can't say that I could ever confuse a Jason Holmes piece with a Holly West or Shannon Brooke. Seek out work that you love and study the final product, begin to think about how they created it and play with recreating the work privately with talent willing to be patient with you. Show a few people you trust for feedback. 

 

When you get decent that's when I'd strike and see if a photographer you connect with will allow you to be an extra set of hands and student for a day on the set.

 

Career first, play time second!

 

e

 

[Kustomkarma]

That sounds like just the thing I'm looking for! Thanks for the offer and I will definitely try to get myself over there. Is all the registering, etc. handled through the website?

Bodacious Betty {★} said:

I see that you are in Winter Park, FL.  We have a Pin Up/Burlesque Fest going on March 2012.  Come say hi to me and I'll introduce you to the Pin Up America family.  Also, I'm offering a pin up photography workshop as well.  It's only $20 and you'll have the chance to shoot with real pin up models who have lots of experience.  I think that's a win/win all round!

http://www.americanpinupburlesquefest.com/

[Bodacious Betty {★}]

HI Kustomkarma.  Yes, you register directly through the website.  The fee for the festival is $25.00 and then $20 for the pinup workshop. 

But even if you don't make it out, there's tons of photography meetups online.  They don't always necessarily focus on pin up, but it's a great way to meet other photogs and make contacts. 

Or just keep an out for some of the local car shows and bike shows in the Tampa/Orlando area. 

The Strawberry Festival has a car show in Plant City every year; Pin Up America is always there doing coverage for its radio show so you could still meet the fam.  (-:

[MissWanderlustless]

I'm probably answering this from the viewpoint of establishing yourself as a photographer/artist in general so bear with me. I also have only seen your work from what you have on your page, so I'm judging off that.

First off, before you worry about credibility, what are you shooting with? Have you taken classes, read up on lighting and gotten to the point that you are happy with the quality of photography you produce? Make sure you perfect your art to the best of your ability before throwing it out there and trying to get paying gigs. 

 

What is a good way to gain credibility?

TFP is a great way to start. Get some lesser known models and do a bang up job of photographing them, when they get exposure, you will too. Make contacts and network. Then from there, start building a web portfolio. Make sure it's not the same type of shoot over and over again, a good portfolio will have a nice amount of variety.

 

Should I somehow be collecting references?

Your good name should be your biggest concern. You're starting from the ground up, make sure what you create is something that YOU are proud of, make sure you are courteous and behave in a professional manner and word of mouth will serve as the best possible reference for you. Anything can be quoted and put in writing, but word straight from someone elses mouth holds the most impact.

If you want a list, create a CV of who you've worked for, where your work has been featured, and add that to that web portfolio I mentioned earlier.

 

I would love to study with a professional, but my time is limited by my career - should I be thinking about some kind of apprenticeship?

As I mentioned before, read up on your hobby, let it become an obsession, find out everything you possibly could want to know about cameras and photography in general. This might mean taking some night classes at a local community college, which is also a great (and most of the time cheap) way to get up to date on technique, the history of photography, etc.

 

And that's what I got.

[Kustomkarma]

Thanks for the pointers. I definitely agree with your suggestions. I was a film major in college, have taken night classes at private Art schools, have interned for a newspaper, and read up on Art and Photography obsessively. The pics that I have posted are not what I'd consider to be my best work - as I'm too protective of it to put it on the web. My biggest issue is just finding models to shoot. I have a casting call out on MM and talk to everyone I can to turn up leads, but it's been super difficult to make things happen - which kind of goes back to my original questions about gaining credibility - as a means of attracting more models and letting people know I'm out there. I need to be shooting a lot more. Right now, despite my best efforts, I'm shooting about once a month. This is due mainly to models not getting back with me, rescheduling, not showing up, changing their minds, etc. I don't have a lot of money to spend, but I'm thinking that I'll have to pay out of pocket to make this happen as TF is proving to be very difficult. I don't ever intend to make any money doing this, I'm really just interested in the Art of it - if I ever get paid I'd be thrilled. I'm feeling good about his weekend's shoot, but I'll just have to wait and see.