Why do photographers do this?

[Vintage Suits by Mary]

I've noticed here on PL that a lot of photographers post in the Casting Call section when they are booking shoots, but they are not casting calls at all but trolling for girls to pay them to shoot. I always thought a casting call was looking for a girl to shoot and either she would be paid or compensated in some other way, not the other way around.
Shouldn't there be another forum for this? That way, when a photographer, or business has a real casting call it won't get lost in the enormous amount of posts from photographers wanting to drum up business. (Don't get me wrong, there's nothing wrong with looking for paid work, it just seems like the wrong forum for it)

[Jason Allen]

Maybe there could be a "travel notice" section (or something along those lines) where services could be posted. Not sure if it would help or hurt the confusion.

- Jason

*edit* which has already been mentioned. I gotta stop reading forums on PL and MM at the same time. lol.

[Vintage Suits by Mary]

Mitzi did a casting call for me for a recent fashion show, and even though it was only for experience and maybe a couple of pics, I was NOT looking to have anyone pay me (or Mitzi) to wear my stuff in a fashion show.

When I look for models, I try to compensate them in any way I can. I am ultimately going to be paying them cash money for their time, as well as taking care of their expenses if they are going to be working for me. Even right now, I try to feed, house, and transport my models to events and shoots.

[Roxy Tart {PL Team / Comm. Mgr}]

Well that was a lot to catch up on!

I personally use our casting call section everyday. I check it here on the site, follow it on facebook, and get twitter updates. And I have to admit, I've never had a problem with the "calls" and the "advertisements" being mixed together. I like knowing about both. I'm not above paying an amazing photographer with sets/props/MUHA etc to shoot me, and I'm always down to do TFP shoots. I have so many things to check everyday, facebook, myspace, PL (and all the Madam work that goes with it), the Dollhouse (and the Madam work there), twitter, email... it's a lot! Adding one more forum/section to check just seems like more work.

The idea of putting payed/TFP in the title of the casting post was a good one, but the fact of the matter is that most people don't seem to be able to follow the guide lines we have posted now, adding another one might make it even worse.

I'm looking forward to seeing how this all plays out. Everyone has some really good points and ideas.

Oh and one more thing.... PLEASE READ AND FOLLOW THE GUIDELINES FOR CASTING CALLS! Just a little Madam plug, thanks so much!!!

[Jason Allen]

Well, I love how Holly West's stuff is laid out. Its very clear and obvious what's going on with it. If everyone could follow that example, it would be great. Nobody seemed to be confused there at all. I agree with some sort of tagging system. So much grey area on subjects like this.


- Jason

[Rottencandy Photography]

Most of us that post in casting call section when its paid work try to make it very clear with the info and fliers that it is paid.
Jason Allen said:

Well, I love how Holly West's stuff is laid out. Its very clear and obvious what's going on with it. If everyone could follow that example, it would be great. Nobody seemed to be confused there at all. I agree with some sort of tagging system. So much grey area on subjects like this.


- Jason

[Rottencandy Photography]

Also it would be nice if you could see more then the few casting calls on the front page, even when I click view more its the same ones as listed before only 10. That sucks when you cant even see your casting anymore even though it is still posted. It doesn't help when people are trying to look for things in certain areas and you cant view older castings.

[Travis Haight Photography]

I like what people are saying about keeping it simple and all in one place yet making it be more clear what the post is. Maybe just have the one spot to post, but maybe have the first part of the form to post a listing include 3 radio buttons and one option must be selected: Paid Gig, TF, or Advertising Photo Services (or something like that). Then maybe take it a step further and let people have some option in browsing the casting calls so they can either check out all types, or whatever specific type they might be looking for by clicking a search option.

Just an idea (sorry if it has already been suggested, I have read most of the previous posts, but not all)

[Jason Allen]

I agree, a lot of the postings are pretty clear. Holly's was just the one that caught my eye after a quick scan, but there were a couple that could be seen as confusing to some. I find that a lot of confusion comes when a new model comes along that doesn't really know how the industry works, and thinks they'll start getting paid right away with no experience.

I'm gonna stop. I think I'm starting to babble.

Rottencandy Photography said:

Most of us that post in casting call section when its paid work try to make it very clear with the info and fliers that it is paid.
Jason Allen said:

Well, I love how Holly West's stuff is laid out. Its very clear and obvious what's going on with it. If everyone could follow that example, it would be great. Nobody seemed to be confused there at all. I agree with some sort of tagging system. So much grey area on subjects like this.


- Jason

[Vintage Suits by Mary]

I only started this thread because some of my models have said that when they get emails from PL that start "Casting Call" they tend to delete them because lately the posts are advertisements and not true casting calls. A couple of these girls are actively working on boosting their careers (such as they are- you can't make a living solely as a pinup model). Generally they get contacted directly with paying jobs, but occasionally someone does post a general casting call for an event or a paid shoot. I don't really see the problem with photographers looking for paid gigs posting in a different forum. (again, they are not casting calls, but ads or requests for business)
Roxy Tart {Madam} said:

The idea of putting payed/TFP in the title of the casting post was a good one, but the fact of the matter is that most people don't seem to be able to follow the guide lines we have posted now, adding another one might make it even worse.

I'm looking forward to seeing how this all plays out. Everyone has some really good points and ideas.

Oh and one more thing.... PLEASE READ AND FOLLOW THE GUIDELINES FOR CASTING CALLS! Just a little Madam plug, thanks so much!!!

[Bad Bettie Designs]

It's not necessarily the photographers that do this it is the way the forum is set up. We don't have another forum to post in. If we did this would not happen. But if we did have some other forum to places such posts I agree with Rottencandy that it should be a mandatory group so that we will be sure to get as much exposure for our special shoots as well. I try to post in my title whether it is TFP, a paid gig or whether I am peddling my services. It's a catch 22 for sure but don't get on us photogs we are only doing what we are allowed to do. I believe this would be an issue for the madams to resolve yes? And to all of you lovely ladies and sweet men who love their girlfriends and check for them. Any shoot under $500 is worth it, it is generally broken up into 2 to 3 payments prior to your shoot as to not break the bank but as Rotten stated, we come out of pocket for our time not only shooting, but editing, your props, Hair and makeup (whether or not we do it ourselves, it's time and work). I try to do full days with multiple girls to cut the costs, make sure you all have a good experience but not completely lose out and do it for nothing, props cost money, MUAH's cost money, equipment, snacks and drinks (if they provide like I do) gas to get to and from if it is location costs money. But we love what we do and that's why we do it so $300 IS a STEAL! When broken down we make about $5.00 an hour... try thinking about it that way...
Love you ladies or else I wouldn't do this and I agree that there is an issue here but we don't have control here so please don't put the blame on us!

[Bad Bettie Designs]

Don't the Madams have control of this, I read the directions, I put that in the titles of my posts...
Make them do it or bump their posts...
Right?http://i925.photobucket.com/albums/ad93/ucsycybersmiley/26.gif

Vintage Suits by Mary said:

I only started this thread because some of my models have said that when they get emails from PL that start "Casting Call" they tend to delete them because lately the posts are advertisements and not true casting calls. A couple of these girls are actively working on boosting their careers (such as they are- you can't make a living solely as a pinup model). Generally they get contacted directly with paying jobs, but occasionally someone does post a general casting call for an event or a paid shoot. I don't really see the problem with photographers looking for paid gigs posting in a different forum. (again, they are not casting calls, but ads or requests for business)
Roxy Tart {Madam} said:

The idea of putting payed/TFP in the title of the casting post was a good one, but the fact of the matter is that most people don't seem to be able to follow the guide lines we have posted now, adding another one might make it even worse.

I'm looking forward to seeing how this all plays out. Everyone has some really good points and ideas.

Oh and one more thing.... PLEASE READ AND FOLLOW THE GUIDELINES FOR CASTING CALLS! Just a little Madam plug, thanks so much!!!

[Edson Carlos]

A lightbulb just went off. What if paid to the photographer photo sessions were considered "Events" and get posted in our events section, leaving "Casting Calls" for TFP and paid to the model opportunities.

Having photo sessions in the events area will also give photographers the ability to message all attendees and collect an RSVP list.