To charge or not to charge

[Punkenstein]

Argh!!! The problem: I asked if I could shoot a local dance troupe which is a non-profit org. They have seen the photos on my photobucket and want a cd. There are 215 out 505 images that I ended up keeping. They offered to pay for the cd and not the images. A cd cost me like what twenty-five cents? The time it took me to resize, crop, and add light(because I dould not use a flash) I figured out to $53.75. I am charging $43 that's $0.20/image. Not bad right? Am I wrong for trying to charge a non-profit organization?

The attached photo is Momentum Dance lab, the non-profit dance troupe.

[Edson Carlos]

You're not wrong for doing so, they are non profit, not non spending =) Make it $100, give them rights to use the image for promotions, and call it a day.

[John at My Favorite Pinups{★}]

flipside, cuz I like to play devil's advocate

you asked to shoot them correct
so you had the images anyway

what were you planning on doing with them?
adding to your own portfolio I imagine, promotional materials etc etc

so it's work you would have done already, regardless of if they wanted a copy or not
isn't that a lot like the trade for cd that photographers and models have been doing for years?

of course that being said I'd charge em $100 like DC says
time and resources are valuable and everyone needs to understand that
I run into the same thing doing websites

John

[Miz Frankenbitch]

One thing about my quandry that I think I left out of the origianal post was that there were no arrangements made prior to the day of. To answer the question of what I was planning on using the images for you are correct about portfolio and website material (with mention of the dance troupe's name). The mention of their name was all that was talked about prior to their performance when I spoke with the producer and art director. For me, I feel as if I still have the right to charge. On the other hand, if they really want the images bad enough they can go to the photobucket website and click and save each and every photo (215) because it is a public file sharing website. I am just not going to tell them that yet. By the way Miz Frankenbitch is my wife. I did not realze she did not sign out before I wrote this response. -Punkenstein (aka Cameron Broyles)

John said:

flipside, cuz I like to play devil's advocate

you asked to shoot them correct
so you had the images anyway

what were you planning on doing with them?
adding to your own portfolio I imagine, promotional materials etc etc

so it's work you would have done already, regardless of if they wanted a copy or not
isn't that a lot like the trade for cd that photographers and models have been doing for years?

of course that being said I'd charge em $100 like DC says
time and resources are valuable and everyone needs to understand that
I run into the same thing doing websites

John

[John at My Favorite Pinups{★}]

like I said.. just playing devils advocate

personally I'd charge em
I get asked just about daily to look at a website to see what I can do with it or to fix some "little thing"
most times "little things" take hours of time and then they either want me to let them slide or offer $20

[Edson Carlos]

The key to my suggestion and logic behind billing was granting them rights to use the images... makes it worth paying for them.

[Ellie Retrophilia]

Personally, I'd stick with the $43...why? Because a lot of non-profits are struggling to keep or get money in to their causes. As someone who is a part of a non-profit Pinup group in that situation that's what I would suggest. You could ask them to plug you at shows, see if they'd let you do some event photography for your portfolio using their shows and if they plan on selling the images...see if they spot ya a couple bucks per print and they could use the rest for their non-profit. I think it would also depend on the type of non-profit. You could conceivably write off your photos as charity donation IF you are making a solid living off your photography AND they are registered as a non-profit.

[Ellie Retrophilia]

We've lately had to ask for TFP photographers because we can't afford to pay for photo sessions. Where we are, the demand for pinups isn't big. But then when you have enough strip clubs to outnumber bars, there's little wonder as to why that is. We raise money through selling our prints and 100% of that money is used to send care packages overseas to the military. Every cent is used to ship and fill the boxes we send. And it's been hard getting enough to be able to send enough boxes without digging in to our own pockets. So paying a photographer is out of the question for us until we can get our group more known on this coast. No worries for the West as there's the established subculture out there.

Look in to what they raise money for. Find out if they are a registered non-profit and then go from there. Next time, make sure you have a typed contract so there is no confusion once you and your client have nailed down details like pricing, prints etc.

[Punkenstein]

Ellie, thank you for you input. I'm gald some one from a non-profit org. replied to this. I understand the their side of things, but this was also one person from the group that contacted me, not the group as a whole. It almost seems like because she doesn't have the money or feel like paying she can play the non-profit card. I didn't make up a printed contract because there was no intrest from the group in buying prints. I plan on stickcing with the $43. A photographer frind of mine charges $95 per digital print. Do the math...that's over $20000 for 215 images. this is a huge deal!!!!!

[Honey B Hooligan {Madam}]

On the flip side of that, a lot of non-profits make plenty of money. Just because they're non-profit, doesn't mean that their members don't make money. It just means that 70% of their yearly profit has to be donated to charity. Any registered Non-Profit is also not paying taxes, which helps to ensure that their employees are well taken care of.

You're definitely not wrong to charge the NP for the photo CD. The money is for your time and effort, not the disc. Even Sears Portrait studio would charge them $100 for a photo CD....(crappy photos at that).

Charge them $100, give them rights to the photos that they pay for, badda bing badda boom. I wouldn't charge them only for your time ($43). YOU'RE not running a non-profit.

IF they bring up the "I could get these on photo bucket for free" thing....be honest. Say "yeah, you could get them there, but they will not be full sized, or good quality, due to photobucket compressing the images for the web."

Plain and simple.

Ellie Retrophilia said:

Personally, I'd stick with the $43...why? Because a lot of non-profits are struggling to keep or get money in to their causes. As someone who is a part of a non-profit Pinup group in that situation that's what I would suggest. You could ask them to plug you at shows, see if they'd let you do some event photography for your portfolio using their shows and if they plan on selling the images...see if they spot ya a couple bucks per print and they could use the rest for their non-profit. I think it would also depend on the type of non-profit. You could conceivably write off your photos as charity donation IF you are making a solid living off your photography AND they are registered as a non-profit.

[Ellie Retrophilia]

Hence why I added that it would depend on the non-profit, what their money is used for etc. There are several factors to consider. However, if it is only ONE girl who is being photographed and there is no interest in purchasing the prints then yes, the price is an object.

The non-profit I am part of does not pay employees. We are strictly volunteer. Which means anything outside of what has been donated has to be paid for out of our pockets...and many of us are on a military paycheck, and 100% of what we get is put towards our cause. This is why I said he needs to consider what type of organization they are, how much is actually going to the cause they support, and what they plan on offering him in return for the reduced rate. If he's getting nothing for the reduced rate then yea he has every right to charge more.

Honey B Hooligan {M} said:

On the flip side of that, a lot of non-profits make plenty of money. Just because they're non-profit, doesn't mean that their members don't make money. It just means that 70% of their yearly profit has to be donated to charity. Any registered Non-Profit is also not paying taxes, which helps to ensure that their employees are well taken care of.

You're definitely not wrong to charge the NP for the photo CD. The money is for your time and effort, not the disc. Even Sears Portrait studio would charge them $100 for a photo CD....(crappy photos at that).

Charge them $100, give them rights to the photos that they pay for, badda bing badda boom. I wouldn't charge them only for your time ($43). YOU'RE not running a non-profit.

IF they bring up the "I could get these on photo bucket for free" thing....be honest. Say "yeah, you could get them there, but they will not be full sized, or good quality, due to photobucket compressing the images for the web."

Plain and simple.

Ellie Retrophilia said:

Personally, I'd stick with the $43...why? Because a lot of non-profits are struggling to keep or get money in to their causes. As someone who is a part of a non-profit Pinup group in that situation that's what I would suggest. You could ask them to plug you at shows, see if they'd let you do some event photography for your portfolio using their shows and if they plan on selling the images...see if they spot ya a couple bucks per print and they could use the rest for their non-profit. I think it would also depend on the type of non-profit. You could conceivably write off your photos as charity donation IF you are making a solid living off your photography AND they are registered as a non-profit.

[Johnnie Houston]

Not at all....In these times we all have to do what we can to get along in life. I think that you logic was sound in charging them what you did.

[Sammy Bee]

Well I read most've the threads so I gotta put my two cents in!

Either way I hope it works out for all. I'd say charge 'em - non-profit or not. But i'd keep everyone happy primarily.

Then be really sticky in the future, if people aren't being clear or wishy washy then something funny is up!
Quality people love clarification, hustlers love confusion! ( i ain't callin no one a hustler btw!)